Mitchel Stuffers, PhD Candidate in History, University of Exeter & Assistant Editor at CIGH Exeter

The Leader of the National Socialist Movement (Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging) of the Netherlands, Anton Mussert, held a 2-month trip to the Indonesian colony (Dutch East Indies) in 1935. In this short article, I reflect on an unearthed, now translated interview targeted at Mussert’s Indonesian audiences.

Towards the interview

My ongoing PhD integrates imperial & colonial studies and comparative fascist studies, and I examine how organisations like the Dutch National Socialist Movement (NSB) built, justified, and executed their vision(s) of fascist international worldbuilding, while also drawing on Holocaust & Genocide Studies and Intellectual History to gain a more holistic overview of its origins and aims. Historical perceptions of the imperial and colonial dimensions of the NSB range from those who reason that policy and ideology were merely proffered from the main branch in the mother country,[1] to those who claim an “inclusive culturalist notion”, together with the integrated inter-imperial branches across the colonies, had a real impact on the overall direction of the NSB before the war.[2] Over the last year and a half, I investigated materials not only from the Netherlands but also from some of its former colonies, like Indonesia, to engage with those inquiries.

Examinations on the NSB more broadly start with insightful works such as those by Edwin Klijn and Robin te Slaa, which, when discussing the NSB’s colonial & imperial aspects, argue that the urge for Lebensraum (living space) was essentially nullified for the Dutch fascists due to the presence of the colonies before World War Two.[3] More recent historiography includes Tessel Pollman,[4] Jennifer Foray,[5] Geraldien von Frijtag Drabbe Künzel,[6] and Nathaniël Kunkeler.[7] However, it was a note in an older work, from 1968, that led to this short article. Simon L van der Wal briefly mentioned (albeit unfortunately with incorrect dates) the existence of an interview with the NSB’s leader, Anton Adriaan Mussert, by a leading Indonesian newspaper;[8] one with anti-colonial, pro-independence leanings.[9] The interview has now been recovered, translated from Indonesian, and brought under examination. It contains striking elements which are worth reflecting on.

The Indonesian National Library’s kind help in locating the interview among its vast collections, coupled with the willingness of a friend of mine, Amriza Basyari, to be the document’s translator, reveals a rare glimpse into Mussert’s double-sided appeal; now targeted at Indonesian audiences, recorded during his trip there in July & August 1935, years before the outbreak of WW2 wherein the NSB collaborated with Nazi Germany.

Analysis: Anton Mussert in The Pemandangan newspaper[10]

When examining the interview contents, two main elements emerge. The first is that the paternal narrative of imperialism aligns with that of other NSB propaganda, which serves to reinforce prior perceptions on how Mussert sought to keep the colony in line. However, the second half of his interview appears to deviate from what one may otherwise expect from the NSB Leader, as democracy and bottom-up representation were apparently discussed positively.

He was interviewed from the comfort of his hotel room, joined by a Pemandangan journalist and a local NSB representative.

Opening the interview, Mussert combatted the idea of Indonesian separatism by highlighting the longer history between the Dutch and the East Indies. He equated the continuation of the empire with sustained order and stability for both parties, stating:

With over 300 years of relations, Holland and the Indies have become one. Separation means chaos for both parties. Holland still needs to lead this country; without it, the Indies will suffer. Holland and the Indies have to become one imperium. Many groups in this country believe the Indies cannot be separated from top leadership, Holland, as it can cause chaos within its own populations or fall into the hands of other empires. (I)

Thereby, as with other NSB propaganda about Indonesia, including domestic outlets like their (Dutch language) Indië – Hou Zee magazine, Mussert used a paternalist narrative to justify the continuation of Dutch colonial rule. Particularly relevant to the Indonesian audience, of course, would be that he warned them against civil unrest and outside threats. Expanding on this, the newspaper noted Mussert’s call for closer cooperation:

Mr. Mussert does not see any separation between the people in the Netherlands and in this country. The Dutch people are Hollandsche Nederlanders, and the people here are Indische Nederlanders. How can the people in Holland and here be one? Because one empire must work together, not only Hollandsche or Indische Nederlanders [but together] for the progress of Holland and Indie. (II)

Thus, the first half of Mussert’s interview promotes a paternalist imperial dynamic, which connects to broader (early) NSB appeals to locals, whereby they proclaimed not to judge by skin colour or place of birth, but by everyone’s devotion to the imperium.[11] As historian Pollman noted, however, Mussert was also recorded at other times to have used more scornful speech on the indigenes of Indonesia.[12] Therefore, these comments appear to reflect an attempt at appeasing various audiences, rather than being entirely authentic in nature, and were aimed instead to make the NSB more appealing to a variety of people.

The second half of the interview further highlights the extent to which Mussert sought to market an NSB-led empire to the Indonesian people. Pemandangan quoted Mussert as speaking more favourably of grassroots democracy than he would otherwise in the Netherlands:

[The current] body of representatives are only present in Holland, [but there is] the need for adequate representation from Indonesian Dutchmen from Indonesians, [and] it has to be chosen by the people and not like the system now, by those in Holland [under communist influence.] The people of Holland now are bored of scheming politicians, and there must be a representative for the people by the people. (III)

In addition to this ‘call’ for direct representation -which one may speculate Mussert did to appeal to his Indonesian audiences-, Pemandangan also inquired, with their final prompt, about the NSB’s “colonial programme”. And, while Mussert here also argued that no blueprint of an NSB empire for the colonies existed, the newspaper wrote:

Mr Mussert continues to explain how he would rather [see that] the indigenous people (of Indonesia) not be harassed by the West. He sees a misinterpretation of everyone here. The people here (need to realise that) the Indonesian Dutchmen have [their] own culture too. It has to be upheld and not be attacked by Western influence. (IV)

Thus, Mussert utilised doublespeak and positioned the NSB as a positive force for the Indonesian people. Noticeably, here, beyond advocating for the paternalist imperial dynamic, Mussert sought to portray himself to his Indonesian audiences as not just a guarantor of order, but also as someone who recognised, and even advocated for, the representation of Indonesian colonial subjects in the imperium. To this extent, one observes either a range of statements that appear at first glance to be contradictory or, possibly, it pertains to a story of more cynical, custom-made appeals to various audiences. This would fall in line with prior discoveries of mine, namely in the form of my MA thesis on the ambiguous nature of the Volk en Vaderland newspaper, whereby reading between the lines, especially in the early years, had been critical to understand how the NSB propaganda operated.[13] Nonetheless, we have here a rare snapshot of one of the NSB’s many faces: This one address was intended by Mussert to be shown to non-Dutch, Indonesian subjects to gain a more favourable standing among them, which separates it from the Dutch interviews given by Mussert at the time to the colonist-oriented papers Sumatrapost and Soerabaijasch Handelsblad, and the NSB’s own newspapers in the colonies.[14]

Lastly, in their reflection, the paper commented on their final impressions of Mussert:

He can smile with such sharpness if he can power through such political gatherings, and his voice heavy if he promises that he will work for the dignity of his people. He does not hate the nation, but sees the people that are diligent, disciplined and strong. He keeps the promise of how [his] NSB will not push the people of this country, but will advance its strengths to protect its dignity. (V)

With this, Pemandangan also appears to have taken an unusual approach to this interview, not just providing a platform but also noting their positive reception of him.

Concluding Remarks and Historiographic Considerations

This article has provided a unique look at when a fascist leader sought to market an empire to its colonial subjects, appealing to them via doublespeak to favourably position his organisation as elevating their standing in the imperium. Beyond the implications of its contents alone, various questions arise in response to the interview’s existence.

Why a leading anti-imperial Indonesian newspaper would platform Anton Mussert, a self-proclaimed ‘proud nationalist and imperialist’ from the Dutch metropole,[15] and transcribe his appeals into Indonesian, is a valuable enquiry for us to understand how the NSB operated. For this, one may well reflect on Mussert and his NSB and wonder whether their attempt at creating a more appealing, normalised image of Dutch fascism likewise led to Pemandangan’s intrigue or possibly challenged the paper to undermine it. Yet, their concluding remarks seemingly contradict the latter.

In turn, the interview impacts our understanding of how the NSB sought to portray itself to local audiences. For example, one scholar, Tessel Pollman, argued that Mussert’s open door to the indigenes was for them to be leadership “décor” at best, and it was a “casual instruction” when he permitted their membership until 1938, as he personally “knew almost nothing” about the social groups in the colonies.[16] Here, Mussert’s appeal, and its translation into Indonesian, offers a serious glimpse at how he may have attempted to shape his image to the colonial subjects positively, especially when he expressed his supposed concern for their safety and their need for fair representation.

It also connects to another important question about the NSB’s overall appeal, as this interview, together with his outreach through colonist-targeted ones, had followed Mussert’s controversial invitation to meet the Dutch East Indies’ Governor-General a month prior, on 23 July 1935.[17] In turn, these events of media exposure at home and in the colonies narrowly fell shortly before the NSB’s infamous electoral success at the Dutch Senate elections, held three days later (July 26), where the NSB won a significant 7.94% (300,000) metropolitan votes.[18] Thus, not only do local interviews of political leaders like Anton Mussert help shape our understanding of the sorts of appeals they made to their various audiences; especially across complex multi-ethnic, multi-continental empires. But, furthermore, less studied interviews like the one now treated may well fit into a longer series of events which shaped their public legitimacy.

Finally, further questions remain about how the NSB sought to revise the imperial and colonial dynamics in their visions of a Dutch fascist imperium. Thus, to gain a more holistic picture of the NSB’s varied ethnic and racial attitudes, further research will be undertaken.

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[1] Pollmann, Tessel. “‘Either One Is a Fascist or One Is Not’: The Indies’ National–Socialist Movement, the Imperial Dream, and Mussert’s Colonial Milch Cow.” Indonesia, no. 92 (2011): 43–58. https://doi.org/10.5728/indonesia.92.0043, p. 45.

[2] Kunkeler, Nathaniël. “Dietsland Empire?: The International and Transnational Dimensions of Dutch Fascism and the NSB, 1922–42.” Locus 28, no. 2 (2022): 124–145. https://doi.org/10.34019/2594-8296.2022.v28.37259, p. 124.

[3] Klijn, Edwin & Te slaa, Robin. “Geen behoefte aan Lebensraum maar wel behoud van koloniën”. In De NSB: Deel 1 – Ontstaan en Opkomst van De Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging, 1931-35 (Boom, 2009), 176.

[4] Pollmann, Tessel. “‘Either One Is a Fascist or One Is Not’: The Indies’ National–Socialist Movement, the Imperial Dream, and Mussert’s Colonial Milch Cow.” Indonesia, no. 92 (2011): 43–58. https://doi.org/10.5728/indonesia.92.0043.

[5] Foray, Jennifer L. “An Old Empire in a New Order: The Global Designs of the Dutch Nazi Party, 1931–1942.” European History Quarterly 43, no. 1 (2013): 27–52. https://doi.org/10.1177/0265691412468085.

[6] Geraldien von Frijtag Drabbe Künzel. ”Germanje’: Dutch empire building in Nazi-occupied Europe,“ In Journal of Genocide Research, 19:2 (2017): 240-257, https://doi.org/10.1080/14623528.2017.1313521

[7]Kunkeler, Nathaniël. “Dietsland Empire?: The International and Transnational Dimensions of Dutch Fascism and the NSB, 1922–42.” Locus 28, no. 2 (2022): 124–145. https://doi.org/10.34019/2594-8296.2022.v28.37259.

[8] Van der Wal, Simon L. “De nationaal-socialistische beweging in Nederlands-Indië”. In Bijdragen en Mededelingen van het Historisch Genootschap, 82. Antigonos, 1968.

[9] Mark, Ethan. “Japan’s Occupation of Java in the Second World War: A Transnational History”. In SOAS Studies in Modern and Contemporary Japan. Bloomsbury Academic, 2018. http://dx.doi.org/10.5040/9781350022225

[10] “Bitjara dengan Ir Mussert”. In Pemandangan, No 110, Tahun 04, 15 August 1935 [p. 2.]

[11] [n.a.], “Wij en Het I.E.V.” In Indië – Hou zee. 13 February 1936. https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=MMIISG23:236246054:00001 [p. 1.]

[12] Pollmann, Tessel. “‘Either One Is a Fascist or One Is Not’: The Indies’ National–Socialist Movement, the Imperial Dream, and Mussert’s Colonial Milch Cow.” Indonesia, no. 92 (2011): 43–58. https://doi.org/10.5728/indonesia.92.0043, p. 50.

[13] Stuffers, Mitchel. Abolitionism and Palingenesis: Jews, Marxists, and The ‘Establishment’ in Dutch Fascist Propaganda, 1933—44 (Master’s thesis, Uppsala Universitet, 2024). https://uu.diva-portal.org/smash/record.jsf?pid=diva2%3A1870907&dswid=5434

[14] Klijn, Edwin & Te slaa, Robin. “Mussert in Bandoeng: onvoorwaardelijke steun aan de Indische

regering”. In De NSB: Deel 1 – Ontstaan en Opkomst van De Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging, 1931-35 (Boom, 2009), p. 989-90.

[15] [n.a.], “Rede van Mussert op Den Landdag”. In Volk en Vaderland: Weekblad der Nationaal-Socialistische Beweging in Nederland, 14 January 1933, p. 1. https://resolver.kb.nl/resolve?urn=ddd:011189372:mpeg21:p001

[16] Pollmann, Tessel. “‘Either One Is a Fascist or One Is Not’: The Indies’ National–Socialist Movement, the Imperial Dream, and Mussert’s Colonial Milch Cow.” Indonesia, no. 92 (2011): 43–58. https://doi.org/10.5728/indonesia.92.0043, p. 47.

[17] Kunkeler, Nathaniël. “Dietsland Empire?: The International and Transnational Dimensions of Dutch Fascism and the NSB, 1922–42.” Locus 28, no. 2 (2022): 124–145. https://doi.org/10.34019/2594-8296.2022.v28.37259, p. 135.

[18] Kunkeler, Nathaniel. “Narratives of Decline in The Dutch National Socialist Movement, 1931–1945.” The Historical Journal 61, no. 1 (2018): 205–25. https://www.jstor.org/stable/26797289, p. 206.

ORIGINAL EXCERPTS IN INDONESIAN:

(I) “Tentang Indie los van Holland

“Saja soedah dengar toean poenja pikiran tentang “Indie los van Holland” Waktoe toean pertama bitjara di [?] Theater. Bolehkah saja minta keterangan lebih djaoeh.

“Zonder toenggoe lagi Ir. Mussert djawab”, Oleh perhoeboengannja jang 300 tahoen lepih ini masa seakan2 Holland dan Indie ada mendjadi satoe. Berpisahnja artinja kekatjauan boeat Goea-doeanja, Holiand masih perloe leiden (pimpin) ini negeri. dengan ta’oesah Indie haroes lijden (sengsara). Holland dan Indie haroes meroepakan imperium satoe.

Banjaknja golongan Ji ini negeri ke doedoekannja ini poelau menjebabkan tidak bisa Indie lepas dari Opperlei- ding, Holland, sebab bisa djadi menje babkan kekatjauan antara pendoekoek senuri atau lekas ditangan keradjaan besar lain. Maka dari otoe di Holland dan djoega disini tereakan “Indie los van Holland“ haroes dibanteras habis. Wij zullen in Holland doen en hier laten wij aan onze kameraden!“ Di Holland ir. Mussert kata lebih heibat orang tereak perkara “Indie los van Holland”, tetapi ini akan dibikin berachir dengan segara.”

[Source: [n.a.], “Bitjara dengan Ir Mussert”. In Pemandangan, No 110, Tahun 04, 15 August 1935, p. 2.]

(II) “Indische Nederlanders

Lebih landjoet Ir, Mussert tidak soe ka ada pemisahan antara ra’jat di Nederland dan di ini negeri. Orang2 Belan da adalah Hollandsche Nederlanders dan orang disini lndische Nederlaaders, bagaimana djoega ra’jat di Holland dan disini ada satoe. Sebab satoe imperium mesti ada kerdja bersama tidak perdoe li Hollandsche atau Indische Nederlanders, oentoek kemadjoean Holland dan Indie.”

[Source: Ibid.]

(III) “Bedan perwakilan

Ir Mussert tidak menjetoedjoei pada parlement seperti adanja sekarang. Bahwa haroes ada perwakilan ra’jat itoe soedah seharhoesnja tetapi dengan lain dasar. Meskipoen itoe badan per-wakilan nanti adanja di Holland, djoega perloe ada wakil Indische Nederlander (Indonesier) tetapi haroes betoel di pilih oleh volk. Boekan seperti sekaranh jang ada di Holland (Roestam Effendi) hanja dipilih dan digoenakan perkakas oleh communisten. Badan perwakilan rakjat ini masa” kata Ir. Mussert, “sajang jang dikirim sebagai wakil boekan jang baik2, Din poen tadak boleh dikata wakil rajkat, hanja semata2 wakil dari politieke partyen. Rakjat sekarang Holland en hier. Djemoe pada politieke gekonkel mesti ada wakil rakjat jang betoel bekerdja boeat rakjat.”

[Source: Ibid.]

(IV) “Koloniale program N.S.B. dan sebagainja

“Apakah toean bisa toeroerkan pada saja bagaimana adanja Koloniale Program N.S.B.

“Dat hebben we niet, en gelukkig niet”. N.S.B. tidak poenja koloniale program dan anggap ini ditak perloe di ini masa. Apa jang ia sesalkan ja lah fihak kaoem merah di Holland jang oendjoek seakan-akan ini negeri pen doedoeknja sangat sengsara.

Di seloeroeh Praiangan ia liat (hanja dari loear) bahwa seolah-olah malaise tidak di kenal. Orang perempoean dengan kebaja dan kainnja jang endah. Lelaki dengan kainkepala dan anak2 bersih serta sehat nampak di djalanan.

Ir. Mussert lebih landjoet toetoerkan bahwa ia lebih soeka adat pendoekoek aseli djangan diperkosa oleh Barat. La anggap keliroe kalau semoae2 di sini. Rajat disini, Indische Nederlanders mempoenjai cultuur sendiri ig. Haroes dipegang tegoeh, djangan teroesak oleh pengaroeh Barat.”

[Source: Ibid.]

(V) “Kita penja indruk terhadap ia

Kita dapat indruk tentang soenggoeh2 nja ini pemoeka pada oesaha memadjoe kan bangsanja, Ia bisa senjoem begitoe tadjam djikalau djengeki perkoempoe- lan politiek, dan soearanja lantas berat djikalau ia berdjandji dan akan beker dja oentoek ketinggian bangsa.

La boekan membentji pada bansa kita, tetapi ia jekihatan orang jang soeka pada tucht dan dicipline jang tegoeh. La tetap berkejakinen bahwa N.S.B. tidak akan mengegentjet ra’jat ini negeri, tetapi akan memadjoekan sampai poenja kekoeatan oentoek diaga diri sendiri tetapi”

[Source: Ibid.]